24 replies to this topic

[ScipioAemilius]

I've been using Wineskin for a while now and I've ported a few games with it. I recently hit a problem with one of my own wrappers (namely Europa Universalis Rome), where playing a long time inevitably causes the game to crash more and more frequently. Showing the log on this forum, I was told by playn that it had a memory leak, and he recommended me to try and port this game with Cider. Cider didn't work, so I downloaded and am trying CiderX. Hence, I'm a complete noob with this tool.

I installed CiderX Porter and CXEx Porter, along with Carbon and Ebony engines. Then I set up a wrapper for the game, copied and pasted the game right from my other wrapper and tried to run it. The great news : CiderX made a much more stable wrapper (I could play years of game time without any problem!). But on the other hand, I had a few issues that makes the game unpleasant to play, and some other issues making the game impossible to play properly.

Many of the ingame fonts are just not showing, making it difficult to make some decisions, while other fonts do show properly... And the background boxes that surrounds such decisions is showing properly only for the boxes behind the first one. The box of the forefront decision is always displaced on the upper left of the text explaining the decision you have to make. I've also noticed that in these displaced boxes, there are sometimes words upside down that seem linked to the words not appearing... I've played with most display options of XConfig, but nothing fixes it.

Other problem is with installing quartz, required to play music (but I also noticed the same error using XTricks for other things, which might be linked to the problem above). When using XTricks, quartz seems to install fine. It says "All done, no error." Right below this, I read :

Executing wine regsvr32 quartz.dll 
Fontconfig error : Cannot load default config file
Fontconfig error : Cannot load default config file
Failed to register DLL quartz.dll
Note : command 'wine regsvr32 quartz.dll returned status 255. Aborting

I also got a "Cannot load default config file" error with vcrun2005 (which might explain font and display problem), and strangely enough (or maybe not), when I tried a CXEx wrapper for the same game, it wouldn't run and I got a similar "Cannot load default config file" error in the log. (I'm also a noob with CXEx, having no results there but having some with CiderX made me drop CXEx quite fast)

Using CX engine in CiderX would not even launch the game, and changing Cider engine would not solve the issue. I'm a little lost and confused and some guidance would be more than welcome.

Oh, and sorry for the wall of text. I think it's always better to give too much than too little ;)

[NSObject]

Ugh, This is a huge issue even with vanilla winetricks.
Winetricks displays what happened during the process and ALWAYS sums up everything with
"X installed successfully!" regardless of tens of distinct errors above the boastful summery.

I can't navigate my way through the dropbox Draculix and I share and navigate to the source therefore.
He's is really messy with his programming and structural soundness :P
I can however tell you that I doubt this is a CiderX specific error. The Winetricks build might just need updating or it's at it's usual  broken state.
Wineticks with Wineskin gave me lots of grief as well.

I think if you replace Wineticks.sh with a newer build that will do the trick.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure where that is in the structure exactly.

[cluthz]

The font config error can be ignored.
I have had that in 90% of all cider ports and I do have like 40 games running in cider on my machine.

As for missing fonts, it could be a rendering issue, changing FBO and glsl setting often fixes issues with fonts not displaying.

You could also try different engines.

As for using wine tricks, I really don't use it much in ciderX, because it's very outdated.
I usually just dump in the DLLs needed or run already downloaded installers with Xinstaller.

Often you can use framework DLLs if you find some missing, if a game need a dx9/dx10 DLL you can usually get it from the Framework from another wrapper.

To work with CiderX it's really nice to have a few vanilla cider wrappers and copy framework and system32 files from them. (must haves: 5413, 6317,6635, 7019). The system32 files in stock ciderX, even when choosing 5413 is NOT the same system32 files as 5413 has. I'm not 100% sure, but pretty sure they are from 5019.

If you wanna use a newer engine than 5413, you can make a self containing engine in XEngine and replace framework with a newer one, be aware most newer Frameworks needs the libwine_openssl.dylib from 5413 to work

The newest lego wrapper (6635) and Cars2 (6317?) and Sims Pet demo (7019) has very good frameworks that can be implemented easily to CiderX, keep in mind the libwineopenssl library you'll need.
Also 7019 has very few DX dlls and you can import missing ones from 6635 instead of using native DX9 dlls. (I did this with my own skyrim wrapper, replaced most the dlls installed and replaced it with transgamings own dylibs)

I've spend very much time with cider/ciderX and it's the tool i find far best, usually if it doesn't run in Cider I don't bother, since it's usually more stable and faster. Cider ports are usually behaving like real mac games.

[ScipioAemilius]

Thanks for your help, I'll try my hand at this tomorrow!

[doh123]

your using CiderX but is it actually using a Cider engine... or just running CXEx.

Some games under Wine (including CX hacks) have memory leaks.  Some it only happens under certain versions.  If you used a CX hack engine that worked, you should figure out the same version of Crossover that is and use that same engine or the same base Wine build in Wineskin and see if it happens.

I cannot remember what Crossover version is what from the engine names... because Devilhunter decided to use all the fancy names instead of the actual version numbers, but they are just hacked versions of the actual shipping Crossover packages.... I have all the Crossover Wine versions available as well... I have had issues that looked like memory leaks before and have gone through 10 or more engines to find one that worked better.  Often the cxwine engines do work better.

[ScipioAemilius]

cluthz, I downloaded the cider wrappers you named, but couldn't find 6317 (Cars 2) and 7019 (Sim Pet Demo). On here, Cars 2 is listed as 6357 and Sim Pet as 7019. I don't know if you made a mistake, if the posters made a mistake, if both numbers are accepted or if they are not the wrapper you mentionned...

Also, quick question : if I can't find some dll I need for my game, do you recommend using Wineskin Winetricks to create them in a Wineskin wrapper and move them over to the Cider wrapper?


doh123, my few tries with CX proved unsuccesful, but I'm new to these new tools, so maybe I shall give it another try!

[NSObject]

Hello? Do I exist?

I suggested above the apparently magnificently upheld cluthz to update your winetricks.sh.
Replace winetircks.sh with http://winetricks.org/winetricks
Try quarts then one more time.

It won't make sense to use a completely different front-end while you can just update your current front-end...
That's like switching from Gmail to Yahoomail if your POP-3 is outdated...

I mean, sure you could if you want of course..
Don't forget to copy over the regs...

This is because CiderX < 2.0 uses old outdated versions of winetricks.

[cluthz]

ScipioAemilius said:

cluthz, I downloaded the cider wrappers you named, but couldn't find 6317 (Cars 2) and 7019 (Sim Pet Demo). On here, Cars 2 is listed as 6357 and Sim Pet as 7019. I don't know if you made a mistake, if the posters made a mistake, if both numbers are accepted or if they are not the wrapper you mentionned...

Also, quick question : if I can't find some dll I need for my game, do you recommend using Wineskin Winetricks to create them in a Wineskin wrapper and move them over to the Cider wrapper?

Yeah it's correct, I posted a "?" after cars2, because I wasn't sure if it was the right number, the 7019 is both present on sim pet and sim pet demo. I find those wrappers/frameworks being the ones I have most success with, but results may vary from game to game.

You can use winetricks in wineskin to get dlls and copy them over, but if the "winetricks.sh" update NSObject posted works, then that is a far better solution.
If you need to set dll overrides, you can do that in xconfig.

[ScipioAemilius]

NSObject said:

Hello? Do I exist?

I suggested above the apparently magnificently upheld cluthz to update your winetricks.sh.
Replace winetircks.sh with http://winetricks.org/winetricks
Try quarts then one more time.

It won't make sense to use a completely different front-end while you can just update your current front-end...
That's like switching from Gmail to Yahoomail if your POP-3 is outdated...

I mean, sure you could if you want of course..
Don't forget to copy over the regs...

This is because CiderX < 2.0 uses old outdated versions of winetricks.

Excuse me if I seemed rude, but I just don't know how to change winetricks.sh. I downloaded your link "as is", and it gave me a winetricks.txt. I found the winetricks.txt inside CiderX wrapper and changed it, but when starting XTricks, instead of showing the list of tricks, it just showed me exactly the code that was written on the webpage. There was also a winetricks (without extension) and swapping back the winetricks.txt and using your link as winetricks (no ext) did show me the list of tricks, but trying any just gave me permission denied error... But the two files have the exact same permission. Adding .sh would give me a "winetricks no such file or directory" error.

Unless I'm doing something awfully wrong, which is more than probable.

[NSObject]

ScipioAemilius said:

NSObject said:

Hello? Do I exist?

I suggested above the apparently magnificently upheld cluthz to update your winetricks.sh.
Replace winetircks.sh with http://winetricks.org/winetricks
Try quarts then one more time.

It won't make sense to use a completely different front-end while you can just update your current front-end...
That's like switching from Gmail to Yahoomail if your POP-3 is outdated...

I mean, sure you could if you want of course..
Don't forget to copy over the regs...

This is because CiderX < 2.0 uses old outdated versions of winetricks.

Excuse me if I seemed rude, but I just don't know how to change winetricks.sh. I downloaded your link "as is", and it gave me a winetricks.txt. I found the winetricks.txt inside CiderX wrapper and changed it, but when starting XTricks, instead of showing the list of tricks, it just showed me exactly the code that was written on the webpage. There was also a winetricks (without extension) and swapping back the winetricks.txt and using your link as winetricks (no ext) did show me the list of tricks, but trying any just gave me permission denied error... But the two files have the exact same permission. Adding .sh would give me a "winetricks no such file or directory" error.

Unless I'm doing something awfully wrong, which is more than probable.

To use an executable file like winetricks (which is a shell script not a text file) you must chmod 775 on it.
If this fails, just replace winetricks.sh from wineskin to ciderX. Or, your right you can just use wineskin..

[Drakulix]

Winetricks is not working very good in CiderX.
It isn't even made for Cider and most of the packages do not have the same effect on Cider like they have in Wine.
I have already disabled some clearly useless or not working packages, but most of the packages I left in are far from being useful.
You should most time just try to work without the XTricks as long as possible.
I do not think quartz does work in Cider. vcrun* packages do run. I have modified them a bit to work correctly, that is why you should never try to update winetricks for CiderX. My winetricks build has some nice add-ons to make some packages work at all.
Calling it outdated is also not completely correct. Some packages do use old code, some use quite new, just what works better in Cider.

To your problems:
As cluthz said the fontconfig error can be ignored.
The missing fonts can either be not fixed (like in Supreme Commander) or can be fixed by adding the missing fonts to the fonts folder in c_drive/windows.
You can try to select the allfonts package in XTricks to do this, or at least try corefonts.

About the Rendering issues.
Either play with the in-game settings or try newer engines or add directx dlls to the system32 folder.


All this statements really tell me, that CiderX is somewhat confusing.
For people, who already know Cider and are having a feeling for what is possible with Cider, it is a nice addition, but for Newbie's it does not work out, because it behaves different to a standard wine.
For CiderX 2.0 the aim is really to get a newbie friendly interface without loosing more advanced options. I will for example not use winetricks anymore. It makes much more sense to build this tricks from ground up for cider. That should make it much easier.
Also I want to add a Log filter, that removes lines like the senseless fontconfig error, or Ciders audio reports on start up.
Man there is still much to do.

And @NSObject:
Thanks for calling my program code messy! :P
I know I develop a real structure for my program by trying to program it. CiderX 1.0 was my first bigger application and yes you see the result. I do not understand my own code sometimes, ask myself, why the heck I did it like this. CiderX 1.* is buggy and I need to reprogram it, just for swapping CXEx against Wineskin. I know this is really bad...
As for my later projects, I am doing several recodes while programming, until everything works AND then make an additional re-code with a good structure for the whole app again. And believe me my code is now most times very clean. CiderX 2.0 is in development progress so yeah, it is still a bit messy. :D
I just do not have the experience to structure program code before starting to write it. I always forget something important, what makes sometimes a total re-code/re-design necessary.

[NSObject]

We're removing Winetricks? Log filtering seems like a good idea... I also want to add RReporter along with it so users won't come to the forums and report an error empty handed.

Cider X 2.0 is my first big application.. I mean it took me a few hours to understand what you were trying to do with XIconBar. Even after I separated XIconBar from XIcon, I was still trying to figure out your meaning.

After numerous amounts of toil, we have a semi-stable featureless build! Woot!

[Drakulix]

Removing winetricks, but adding our own cidertricks. believe me, that is better.

[ScipioAemilius]

I can't wait for CiderX 2.0! When is it expected to go beta?

But, back to my problem, it seems the font do appear, they just appear offscreen. I've noticed that the text do appear in the displaced box that is supposed to surround said text, but the text shows upside down. I've moved all the DirectX9 files from the wineskin wrapper to the CiderX, installed vcrun2005 and played with game and wrapper settings, but nothing seems to fix it... It must either miss a dll or something is wrong... or maybe it's just not fixeable, who knows?

On a side note, I've tried to update another of my wrappers (Rome Total War) with Cider and CiderX. Cider will give better performance, but with mouse problems (it slides slowly towards the right side of the screen) and strange graphic (water is green and oily instead of blue). CiderX is the exact opposite : perfect graphics, no such mouse problems (well, it does, but it's fixed when touching the edge of the screen), but it is sooooooo slow! I've tried as cluthz suggested : I tried to change the CiderX engine, but what I got was a slow wrapper with the graphic problems... What on earth am I doing wrong and how can I have the best of both worlds?

[NSObject]

ScipioAemilius said:

I can't wait for CiderX 2.0! When is it expected to go beta?

But, back to my problem, it seems the font do appear, they just appear offscreen. I've noticed that the text do appear in the displaced box that is supposed to surround said text, but the text shows upside down. I've moved all the DirectX9 files from the wineskin wrapper to the CiderX, installed vcrun2005 and played with game and wrapper settings, but nothing seems to fix it... It must either miss a dll or something is wrong... or maybe it's just not fixeable, who knows?

On a side note, I've tried to update another of my wrappers (Rome Total War) with Cider and CiderX. Cider will give better performance, but with mouse problems (it slides slowly towards the right side of the screen) and strange graphic (water is green and oily instead of blue). CiderX is the exact opposite : perfect graphics, no such mouse problems (well, it does, but it's fixed when touching the edge of the screen), but it is sooooooo slow! I've tried as cluthz suggested : I tried to change the CiderX engine, but what I got was a slow wrapper with the graphic problems... What on earth am I doing wrong and how can I have the best of both worlds?

You might need a custom build with the "perfect Cider build" you used plus the Crossover Games 9.1 build.

[cluthz]

Did you try change FBO and GLSL settings?

[ScipioAemilius]

NSObject, how would I do that? Don't forget two days ago I was creating my first CiderX wrapper! I need step by step explanation, such is the pain and shame of being a newbie.

cluthz, yes I did play around with those. For the Total War wrapper, it basically gave a faster game with green water (as in cider) and a slightly less problematic mouse moving around on its own. For the Europa Universalis wrapper, it didn't change anything. I'm starting to think it may be the game interface that could have been changed (how? no idea). I'll check into this...

As for the mouse issue of the Total War wrapper, there are a little more oddities... Moving the camera around on the region map with arrows works with left, bottom and right, but not up (but it does works on the battlefield). Also, the mouse pointer can't reach the bottom or right edges of the screen, except when it is moved through the problem mentionned above (moving on its own). So if it can reach the edge on occasions, that means there might be a fix for the unreachable edges, no?

[Drakulix]

Well CiderX does not change the Cider engines themself.
IF an CiderX wrapper behaves different to a stock Cider Wrapper, although they are using the same engine,
then there are not much possibilities, why this is the case.
One difference is the system32 folder. CiderX uses one system32 folder from Cider 54** (dragon age 2) for every engine.
And the config file in the preferences (cider) / configs (ciderX) folder is maybe different, if you used XConfig.
So play around with swapping these files and modifying the config file, until you get the best combination.

[cluthz]

Drakulix said:

CiderX uses one system32 folder from Cider 54** (dragon age 2) for every engine.
And the config file in the preferences (cider) / configs (ciderX) folder is maybe different, if you used XConfig.
So play around with swapping these files and modifying the config file, until you get the best combination.

CiderX has system folder from 5019, i'm pretty sure.
It's not the 5413 at least, when I did the comparisons between different sys32s the stock ciderX and 5413 was quite different.


Also, which engines have you tried ScipioAemilius?
Different engines behave much differently.
Some engines has lesser use than others.
For older games the 2583 (spore freaky creatures) often works wonders.
Believe me the differences between engines can be huge, and some games will just run in a few engines.
MY ports usually ends up with 2583, 3745, 4533, 5413, or newer custom builds.

[Drakulix]

Okay 5029 is also possible, I cannot really remember the last time I have updated them.

[NSObject]

Oh, I thought CiderX was a combination of Crossover and Cider for some reason.

[Drakulix]

NSObject said:

Oh, I thought CiderX was a combination of Crossover and Cider for some reason.

It is some kind of. It uses CX for installing, winetricks, etc, but Cider for the actual game.

[ScipioAemilius]

cluthz, I haven't tried many engines so far. Since I had pretty good results with what I had, I thought it would only require some tinkering. I'll try with your "favorite" engines and will let you know.

[ScipioAemilius]

By the way, some functions of CiderX will create a desktop shortcut on my desktop... I suppose it's not intended...

[Drakulix]

Yeah that is an old CX Bug, that is still in there.