28 replies to this topic

[BLACKNIGHT]

I was looking through some of the cider frameworks when i found this
libd3dx11_43.dylib
libd3dx11.dylib

Does this mean that cider Will be able to handle DX11 games???

[cluthz]

BLACKNIGHT, on 31 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

I was looking through some of the cider frameworks when i found this
libd3dx11_43.dylib
libd3dx11.dylib

Does this mean that cider Will be able to handle DX11 games???

No.

DX9 games can use certain DX10 and DX11 functions, but not the whole set.
Most new games are using DX9c now, when you install DX9c you'll get some DX10 and DX11 dlls.

[BLACKNIGHT]

cluthz, on 31 March 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

No.

DX9 games can use certain DX10 and DX11 functions, but not the whole set.
Most new games are using DX9c now, when you install DX9c you'll get some DX10 and DX11 dlls.

oh ok
but Could we see Dx11 in the future?

[cluthz]

BLACKNIGHT, on 31 March 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

oh ok
but Could we see Dx11 in the future?

Possibly, but I have no idea when.
I guess we'll have DX10 first

[wMin17]

cluthz, on 31 March 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Possibly, but I have no idea when.
I guess we'll have DX10 first

Wait....  DX10 WORKS????????????

[GameGuy]

wMin17, on 01 April 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Wait....  DX10 WORKS????????????

dx10 doesn't work he means that dx10 implementation will come before dx11...just have to wait

[wMin17]

We absolutely NEED dx10.  We could run games like battlefield 3 and stuff....

[GameGuy]

Battlefield 3 needs a full dx11 install to run not just dx10...there is no way to force just dx10 for the game.

[MAXIMUSSPRIME]

This thread just gets sadder and sadder as you scroll down :\

[Tetsu]

I need DX10 for singularity.... or a least those DX10 functions that it uses that the DX9 implemantion Cider lacks (such as Shader Model 4.0). Lacking that causes glitches, missing graphics and other issues in the game.

Same thing with Alan Wake, most things there work except for the ghost effects which are probably Shader Model 4.0 effects... the same ones used in Singularity and are thus missing. Although in Alan Wake's situation it's WINEHQ's WINE engine at fault not cider.

Luckily enough they didn't use any of those effects in Alan Wake's American Nightmare.. that seemed to work perfectly in WINE... apart from the sound issues.

[cluthz]

GameGuy, on 02 April 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

Battlefield 3 needs a full dx11 install to run not just dx10...there is no way to force just dx10 for the game.

This is not true. BF3 runs perfectly fine on DX10

[GameGuy]

cluthz, on 06 August 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

This is not true. BF3 runs perfectly fine on DX10

Do you mean runs on dx10 cards because when I ran it on my hd3000 it said dx11 still even though its dx10.1 only. It has compatibility for dx10 hardware but is a full dx11 game.

[cluthz]

GameGuy, on 06 August 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Do you mean runs on dx10 cards because when I ran it on my hd3000 it said dx11 still even though its dx10.1 only

Yes, the game does only need dx10. Same with LA noire, even though they claim it's dx11.
Seeing as most games are still DX9, DX10 is plenty powerful and most games that are called DX11 uses only very few DX11 features and are basically dx10 games with a very few extra DX11 effects (that you don't really notice anyways ).

[GameGuy]

cluthz, on 06 August 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Yes, the game does only need dx10. Same with LA noire, even though they claim it's dx11.
Seeing as most games are still DX9, DX10 is plenty powerful and most games that are called DX11 uses only very few DX11 features and are basically dx10 games with a very few extra DX11 effects (that you don't really notice anyways ).

Idk if you mistook what I said but bf3 is a full dx11 game but has compatibility for dx10 hardware. If you read anywhere frostbite 2 is a first full dx11 engine (eg: It will take full advantage of the DirectX 11 API and 64-bit processors, with no support for DirectX 9 nor Windows XP). La Noire has always been a dx9/10 game from the start until they released the dx11 patch (patch 1.2.2610 to  1.3.2613) which was the worst thing they could do for an already crappy game engine that was not supposed to support dx11. That situation with la noire is totally different than bf3 because la noire got its supposed dx11 support added to it as bf3 used an engine built from the ground up with dx11.

[Nicholas Wong]

I was kinda thinking i could find the DX11 files on my Alienware and transfer them onto my mac. After that i would replace the DX9 files with the DX11 files. Would this work? Also, in WineSkin, i used Wine to install DX11 files onto the wrapper. Of course the installation crashed after installing a couple of files. After that i ran a couple of DX11 games such as Black Ops 2 and NBA 2K13 and they worked perfectly until I started a up a level.  Does this mean that if you somehow completed the DX11 installation successfully you could run games like BF3 or BO2?

[REBOOT]

Answers is no. Only Wine supports DX9. WineHQ said DX10 is possible portable in future. (no announce on wiki).

Now, Wine CANNOT run DX10 and DX11.

[Nicholas Wong]

I was looking through the source code of some Aspyr ports and I found that some of them are compatible with DX11. If we some how got Aspyr's porting engine would we be able to succeed in porting DX11 games?

[REBOOT]

Nicholas Wong, on 01 April 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

I looked through the source code of some Aspyr ports and I found that some of them are compatible with DX11. If we some how got Aspyr's porting engine would we be able to succeed in porting DX11 games?

Aspyr converted to OpenGL from DX11 on some existing engines. It's same as PS3 OpenGL. I'm not sure some DX11 features are disabled on OpenGL.

Wine is part of Windows XP. DX10 and DX11 does not supports it because they requires Windows Vista or newer.

Edited by REBOOT, 01 April 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[Nicholas Wong]

REBOOT, on 01 April 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

Aspyr converted to OpenGL from DX11 on some existing engines. It's same as PS3 OpenGL. I'm not sure some DX11 features are disabled on OpenGL.

Wine is part of Windows XP. DX10 and DX11 does not supports it because they requires Windows Vista or newer.

Actually Crossover supports Windows Vista

[GameGuy]

Nicholas Wong, on 02 April 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Actually Crossover supports Windows Vista

Vista support doesn't mean that dx11 will work they have to implement that...wish it was that simple.

[REBOOT]

Wine have many Windows versions. It got Windows 8 version too. They are fake windows version identity. (it's NOT helpful for DX11)

P.S. CrossOver is same as Wine.

[Nicholas Wong]

Guess being a kid trying to port DX11 sucks.

[Nicholas Wong]

The Xbox version of BF3 and BO2 use DX9 i think, if we got the XEX file of both BO2 and BF3 and extract the DX9 files, could we replace the DX11 files with those DX9 files?

[Tetsu]

Nope, you can't just substitute DirectX files like that. They coexist with each other on the same system. The reason why Wine or cider doesn't support it isn't because of lack of files and again DX9 and DX10 or 11 DLL's aren't interchangeable.

Also, there's nothing to extract from an Xbox game that can be usable on a PC or in a wrapper at least not usable DLL files. Sorry.

Also, everyone I'd get PS3 OpenGL out of your head. No company uses it for performance intensive games. They tend to use Sony's proprietary API instead NOT OpenGL. Kind of like with Dreamcast, they had Windows CE on there but hardly anyone used it. Their work on porting games to the PS3 and probably even PS4 has little bearing on whether it's feasible to do on Mac. I'm pretty sure at least some features are disabled on any OpenGL system.

Also, for all we know Aspyr probably uses extensions for some things but stubs out other things so what they do is probably not full DX10 or 11. However, I hear at least some of DX10 and 11 featureset are coming to some native ports sooner or later as OpenGL 3.2 support is being worked on and OpenGL 4.x is in the pipeline for OS X.

Before anyone ask no, there'd be no files that one can reuse from those native games to enable it in Cider or Wine.

[REBOOT]

Tetsu, on 02 April 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Also, everyone I'd get PS3 OpenGL out of your head. No company uses it for performance intensive games. They tend to use Sony's proprietary API instead NOT OpenGL. Kind of like with Dreamcast, they had Windows CE on there but hardly anyone used it. Their work on porting games to the PS3 and probably even PS4 has little bearing on whether it's feasible to do on Mac. I'm pretty sure at least some features are disabled on any OpenGL system.

Is it PSGL, right? (I read Khronos' powerpoint file.) or Internet people are wrong?

[Tetsu]

Nope, that's still a variant of OpenGL and is part of my statement. Sony's propretary API is LibGCM, and or others go direct to the metal which is even lower level than it. The newer the game the more it probably bypasses LibGCM and goes direct to the metal especially as the GPU in there gets long in the tooth. In fact, as far as APIs go straight up OpenGL is not a thing on the PS3 just PSGL and LibGCM. So yeah, PSGL = OpenGL ES = what people are referring to when they say OpenGL on the PS3.

To me asking if it's PSGL is like:



Here's a quote from: http://www.ps3devwik...X#RSX_Libraries

Quote

The easiest way is to use high level PSGL, which is basicially OpenGL|ES with programmable pipeline added in - but hardly anyone uses PSGL these days, preferring to use the native GPU command buffer generation library, libgcm. At a lower level developers can use LibGCM, which is an API that talks to the RSX at a lower level. PSGL is actually implemented on top of LibGCM. For the advanced programmer, you can program the RSX by sending commands to it directly using C or assembly.

[Stephen Shannon]

With Direct X 10, we can play all the games that utilize the Frostbite Engine, (I think)

[HyperTsunaz]

Stephen Shannon, on 07 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

With Direct X 10, we can play all the games that utilize the Frostbite Engine, (I think)

Not really.

[Tetsu]

DICE is looking to port that engine to the Mac themselves anyway (Frostbite). I'm just guessing here but they'll probably utilize the latest OpenGL versions available. Perhaps even requiring OS X 10.8 for DX10 level graphics and recommending OS X 10.9 for DX10+ or maybe even 11.

I know some people are already thinking.. "but I want to stick to my OS X 10.5". Well, I'm sorry but there comes a point of diminishing returns and one can't expect cutting edge games and cutting edge APIs and stick to outdated software and possibly even outdated hardware.

In other words, support in wrappers and games is only part of the puzzle. The OS and don't forget.. your hardware has to support it too. My older GPU (AMD Radeon HD4850 512MB) didn't support DX11 for example and also didn't support OpenGL 4.x.