62 replies to this topic

[Blinx 007]

Dose this mean if a wine developer buys the new mac book pro when it comes out Wineskin will have a major update?

[doh123]

an update for what?

[devilhunter]

Just curious, did anyone gather what exactly gets upscaled?

Does the 'retina' macbook upscale things that are too small?
The resolution is just too big for normal apps, and i suspect even some new games will get issues with the resolution.
The system needs to upscale thigns quite a bit, and there is a limit how low high res screens can switch to, like 800x600 or 1024x768 mode.
Might be not possible with the  new displays.

edit:
ah forget it, found a bit of info on this

[Blinx 007]

doh123, on 12 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

an update for what?

Major update in wineskin

[hmtinc]

blinxfrost, on 12 June 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Major update in wineskin

Why would wineskin need to be updated?
Wineskin is just a wrapper creation program. How does updating wineskin have anything to do with the new macbook ?
If it runs on other macs then it will run on the new MBP . Unless apple decides to to do something stupid with their new mac book in a future software update, Wineskin will run.

but i do have a question regarding wineskin update
Whats the current status on Wineskin for 10.8 ?

[doh123]

yeah i dont get what needs to be updated for Wineskin...  WineskinX11 and fullscreen apps should be able to do all normal resolutions fine even if Apple hides them in normal display properties, just like current machines.

As far as I know Wineskin has no issues right now with 10.8, but the latest dev preview from yesterday I of course do not have, and i haven't tested it in several versions.  I don't really plan on it either... but several people have told me that it works in 10.8 when they've tested.

[Blinx 007]

doh123, on 13 June 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

yeah i dont get what needs to be updated for Wineskin...  WineskinX11 and fullscreen apps should be able to do all normal resolutions fine even if Apple hides them in normal display properties, just like current machines.

As far as I know Wineskin has no issues right now with 10.8, but the latest dev preview from yesterday I of course do not have, and i haven't tested it in several versions.  I don't really plan on it either... but several people have told me that it works in 10.8 when they've tested.

should i update to 10.8 or stay with 10.7.3

[hmtinc]

blinxfrost, on 13 June 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

should i update to 10.8 or stay with 10.7.3

i say stick with 10.7.4 , and upgrade when 10.9 comes out.
skip 10.8

[doh123]

I'm sure 10.8 will be fine... and its only $20 to upgrade all your machines.  Its still not out for another month though.

[wMin17]

I hate all the new features in mountain lion.  It overcomplicates things and it might interfere with porting!

[syao]

devilhunter, on 12 June 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Just curious, did anyone gather what exactly gets upscaled?

Here you can see some screenshots  with differences between an application being upscaled or supporting retina natively (the screenshots were most likely taken with the recommended resolution): https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=674373 - see first, third and fourth attachments.

To sum it up:
- Upscaling is done on a per-application basis (apps that don't support Retina natively are upscaled 2x)
- Apps that don't support retina will look about the same they look on a non-Retina Mac.  Each logical pixel in their UI will use 2x2 physical pixels.
- Apps that natively support Retina will look smoother, and the affected UI elements are especially buttons (i.e. the titlebar controls, or the Cocoa widgets), font rendering
- There's little point supporting Retina in X11 and/or wine, since, well, many games would show their text so small that's barely readable, if they were to use the full 2880x1800 resolution on the new MBP.  Some games and applications, though, would look nice on it, as long as they can be set to 220 dpi (does wine support dpi changes like windows does?)
- There should be a way to test this without owning the new MBP (I'm not planning to buy such an expensive laptop).  If I remember correctly there's some hidden setting in Lion to enable the HiDPI mode.

On an unrelated note, seriously, I'm going to upgrade to 10.8 the day it comes out.  iCloud Documents sync in Pages, Numbers and Keynote, as well as the Notification Center are killer features for me.  And Messages being enabled to receive iMessages being sent to your phone number as well.  Very appreciated the UI revamp for Calendar and AddressBook too.

[REBOOT]

hmtinc, on 13 June 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

i say stick with 10.7.4 , and upgrade when 10.9 comes out.
skip 10.8

What you think 10.7.9 is better than 10.8?

[doh123]

syao, on 13 June 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

On an unrelated note, seriously, I'm going to upgrade to 10.8 the day it comes out.  iCloud Documents sync in Pages, Numbers and Keynote, as well as the Notification Center are killer features for me.  And Messages being enabled to receive iMessages being sent to your phone number as well.  Very appreciated the UI revamp for Calendar and AddressBook too.

I'm going to try it out and see what happens... I'm also going to try making a screen res changing app since I already know how to do it to see if i can set hard set modes on the thing and maybe even run 2880x1800... just for fun.

I'm also going to upgrade my primary (since it will be free for me, but still its only $20 for everyone) the day 10.8 comes out.  Its a great OS much improved... I see no reason to not go to it.

Reboot, on 13 June 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

What you think 10.7.9 is better than 10.8?

I doubt they'll be up that high... since its 10.7.4 right now and 1 month til 10.8 ... it might get to 10.7.5 or at a long shot 10.7.6.... but who knows it can be like 10.4 and get up to like 10.7.11

[KGameLover1]

"Intel HD Graphics 4000

• NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching"

Are you f*cking kidding me?!
I'm stuck with this crappy AMD for a while, then.

[doh123]

KGameLover1, on 13 June 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

"Intel HD Graphics 4000

• NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching"

Are you f*cking kidding me?!
I'm stuck with this crappy AMD for a while, then.

all the new ones went to the GT 650M ... for small portables (unlike giant brick gaming machines) its actually a very fast GPU, much better than the 6750 and 6770 Apple used in previous couple of versions.  A very nice update.

[Hrachya]

It's nice but still sucks. Alienware has better computers with the same price as that MBP.

[doh123]

Hrachya, on 13 June 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

It's nice but still sucks. Alienware has better computers with the same price as that MBP.

really?  I looked over their site and cannot find any...

[Hrachya]

Well you should look harder, cause the 18X laptop shows up every time you open up the website.

It has an i7-3610QM with a GTX 660m with 2GB VRam for 2 grand. Lot more powerful than what Apple gives you for almost 3 grand.

[GameGuy]

Alienware is made cheap and sold for a lot. I would get the MBP over a dell any day...but for now its just me and my mid 2009

[HiPhish]

I don't realy get the idea behind gaming laptops. i mean, if you are really serious about gaming (which I assume you are with such prices), then why wouldn’t you buy a tower PC which can also be upgraded almost without limits.

@doh:
Do you have any idea how GateKeeper will work for wrappers? Are they all going to be unsigned or are they going to be signed with your key (would that even be possible/secure?)

[hmtinc]

@hiphish
i totally agree that if you are serious about gaming then buy a tower pc. But the macbook pro retnia is not designed for gaming Its designed for professionals who do video editing , photo editing , 3d graphic creation , etc,
Most of the time a company ( mostly graphic designing companies & Video editing companies ) would buy their employees a mac book to do professional related work on the go.
The price makes sense for professional look for a super high res screen and powerful processing . But if you are a gamer then i agree then go buy a tower pc


Or maybe in the future when internet is faster & cheaper ... We may all use cloud GPu's

@doh123
with apple loosening their guidelines for mac apps on the store. You should submit wineskin into the app store.

[Hrachya]

I agree with laptops sucking at gaming. But I'm just saying, Apple makes cheap stuff and sells it for more than it needs to be sold for.

[Hrachya]

GameGuy, on 13 June 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Alienware is made cheap and sold for a lot

In the example I showed above I prove otherwise.

[GameGuy]

Hrachya, on 13 June 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

In the example I showed above I prove otherwise.

You prove that for the price of the alienware you can get better cpu's and gpu's but the rest of there internals suck.

[Hrachya]

Like...?

[doh123]

Hrachya, on 13 June 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Well you should look harder, cause the 18X laptop shows up every time you open up the website.

It has an i7-3610QM with a GTX 660m with 2GB VRam for 2 grand. Lot more powerful than what Apple gives you for almost 3 grand.

you said "better computers" ... you didn't define what "better" means to you.
the 18X is a horrid laptop, I'd never have one of those... no its not better at all.  Maybe its "better" for someone out there, but definitely not me.

HiPhish, on 13 June 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Do you have any idea how GateKeeper will work for wrappers? Are they all going to be unsigned or are they going to be signed with your key (would that even be possible/secure?)

while I'll get Wineskin.app and Wineskin Winery.app signed, wrappers you create will not be signed, and you'll have to sign them yourself if you want them signed.

hmtinc, on 13 June 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

@hiphish
i totally agree that if you are serious about gaming then buy a tower pc. But the macbook pro retnia is not designed for gaming Its designed for professionals who do video editing , photo editing , 3d graphic creation , etc,
Most of the time a company ( mostly graphic designing companies & Video editing companies ) would buy their employees a mac book to do professional related work on the go.
The price makes sense for professional look for a super high res screen and powerful processing . But if you are a gamer then i agree then go buy a tower pc

for the small footprint tiny little laptop, the performance level is great, and overall is an awesome machine... cannot wait to get one.  People want to compare that to a machine thats 5X the size... bigger isn't more expensive, you pay more for the better design which is smaller in this case.

hmtinc, on 13 June 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

@doh123
with apple loosening their guidelines for mac apps on the store. You should submit wineskin into the app store.

what are the loosening?  as far as I've seen all they've done is make things tighter with the Sandboxing requirement.  Wineskin Winery cannot be sandboxed to their guidelines as far as I know... I don't think a Wineskin wrapper can either.

[Hrachya]

doh123, on 14 June 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

you said "better computers" ... you didn't define what "better" means to you.
the 18X is a horrid laptop, I'd never have one of those... no its not better at all.  Maybe its "better" for someone out there, but definitely not me.

By better I meant more powerful, which it is. How else can you define 'better' when talking about computers?

[GameGuy]

Hrachya, on 14 June 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Like...?

I haven't personally owned one but a few people at a game club at my school had m11x and m17x laptops and have RMA'ed them at least twice because of fried mobo's. If I was going to personally buy a "GAMING" laptop I would go with an MSI or ASUS laptop. Plus alienware just seems expensive for what you get. Here are 2 similar laptops:  

MSI X Series X460DX-291US Notebook   $849.99
i5-2450M 2.5GHz TB= 3.1Ghz
6GB DDR3 1600Mz
750GB 7200rpm sata
NVIDIA GeForce GT 630M 2GB
14"


Alienware m14x   $1,399.00
i5-3210M TB= 3.1Ghz
6GB DDR3 1600Mz
750GB 7200rpm sata
NVIDIA® GeForce GT 650M 2GB
14"
Steam Preinstalled...lol

Alienware is customized to the MSI laptop for comparability.

[Hrachya]

Well, I haven't used alienware, but still, above the GPU and CPU is more powerful. Thats why the price is higher.

[GameGuy]

Hrachya, on 14 June 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well, I haven't used alienware, but still, above the GPU and CPU is more powerful. Thats why the price is higher.

The i7-3610QM is a good cpu but its still a mobile cpu. The i7-3610QM shows up on the list higher than the i5 2500k but I doubt it could handle as many tasks as the 2500k.  The GT 660 seems to be just a rebranded GT 560 and you should know that mobile cards are way slower compared to desktop cards.