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Questions about the state of the art of Wine and Wineskin


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#1 1Mac

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 03:00 PM

Checking in on these often sleepy forums and I find that I suddenly have a lot to catch up on! I want to see if I understand where Wineskin is at these days, so I have a few questions:

-Is there any performance benefit to using the Unofficial Update to Wineskin? I get the utility of things like having functioning GPU detection and working 32+64 bit wrappers, but I don't know if I'd see a performance boost by changing wrappers.
-I've been using soloMacOSX's excellent tutorial for creating Wineskin engines from the latest versions of Wine. I notice some people on these forums are compiling their own engines for download here. Is there any advantage to using these engines over the engines I make myself?
-What's going on with Wine Staging? I get that it's incompatible with the Unofficial Update, and that there are issues with it in 64-bit mode. Is there any advantage to using staging over the development versions of Wine?
-I'm currently running Sierra and have been reluctant to upgrade to High Sierra given incompatibilities with Wine and uncertainty regarding support for OGL. Then I read about this bug. Has this been fixed? Should I update to High Sierra even if it has?

Thanks all!

#2 ovvldc

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:17 PM

View Post1Mac, on 27 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

-I'm currently running Sierra and have been reluctant to upgrade to High Sierra given incompatibilities with Wine and uncertainty regarding support for OGL. Then I read about this bug. Has this been fixed? Should I update to High Sierra even if it has?

I believe this one is fixed. Could be wrong..

#3 Gcenx

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:35 PM

Quote

-Is there any performance benefit to using the Unofficial Update to Wineskin? I get the utility of things like having functioning GPU detection and working 32+64 bit wrappers, but I don't know if I'd see a performance boost by changing wrappers.

GPU detection is built into Wineskin but was broken in High Sierra, the fix just makes that function work again.
Yes using the update will allow you to make new wine wrappers including wine64 and I just re-uploade to now make staging64 wrappers also.
A performance boost is more to do with the wine version you are using, if you need more ram access and the game/application you need is high-memory aware then 64bit wine version is preferred.


Quote

-I've been using soloMacOSX's excellent tutorial for creating Wineskin engines from the latest versions of Wine. I notice some people on these forums are compiling their own engines for download here. Is there any advantage to using these engines over the engines I make myself?

You can use the uploaded ones or you make it yourself, the ones uploaded to this site are compiled anyway if you don't want to wait for an uploaded then you make it yourself.


Quote

-What's going on with Wine Staging? I get that it's incompatible with the Unofficial Update, and that there are issues with it in 64-bit mode. Is there any advantage to using staging over the development versions of Wine?

What do you mean? Staging works with stock wrappers, Staging64bit does not work with stock wineskin you need newer libs to make those but that causes other issues when using the stock wrapper.
Wine-Devel versions are just newer wine builds aka not Stable, Wine-Staging includes addition patches that are not not ready to be added to stock wine versions (wine/wine-Devel), some games will not even work unless you use wine-staging version.


Quote

-I'm currently running Sierra and have been reluctant to upgrade to High Sierra given incompatibilities with Wine and uncertainty regarding support for OGL. Then I read about this bug. Has this been fixed? Should I update to High Sierra even if it has?

The entire reason I started to make the unofficial update was to use the High Sierra fix, I did mention that in the information that I posted about the update.
OGL I will assume your talking about Open GL support, um what issues are you talking about?, I'm not aware or any issues with it since updating, Apple no longer updates it instead they will be supporting Metal2

#4 1Mac

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:02 PM

Great, thank you for your answers! I'm long suspected that Wineskin wasn't really making the most out of 64-bit engines, so I'm very excited to try your updated wrapper out.

View PostGcenx, on 27 April 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:


What do you mean? Staging works with stock wrappers, Staging64bit does not work with stock wineskin you need newer libs to make those but that causes other issues when using the stock wrapper.  

Maybe I misunderstood, but on the thread you say that Staging64-bit engines won't build properly "in the default wrapper." Are you saying that they will build properly in your wrapper?

Quote

OGL I will assume your talking about Open GL support, um what issues are you talking about?, I'm not aware or any issues with it since updating, Apple no longer updates it instead they will be supporting Metal2

I guess my fear is that some future update will remove OGL support from MacOS entirely. That's certainly been Apple's MO in the past, to go from "we're no longer supporting x" to "x will no longer work after the latest update," where x = OS Classic, 32-bit applications, etc. Maybe that doesn't make sense in the case of OGL.

#5 NRG

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:12 PM

View Post1Mac, on 27 April 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:



I guess my fear is that some future update will remove OGL support from MacOS entirely. That's certainly been Apple's MO in the past, to go from "we're no longer supporting x" to "x will no longer work after the latest update," where x = OS Classic, 32-bit applications, etc. Maybe that doesn't make sense in the case of OGL.

http://portingteam.c...rt-on-macos-r63

#6 1Mac

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:32 PM

View PostNRG, on 27 April 2018 - 05:12 PM, said:


Cool, thank you. That article was part of what I was thinking of when I asked my question. I guess you all are saying that Apple hasn't been updating its OGL implementation but also hasn't removed it. Is that right? Would I still be able to run OGL games if I upgrade to High Sierra? Is there any chance Apple would ever remove OGL implementation entirely from future OS's? Would Vulkan hypothetically be able to fill that void?

#7 Gcenx

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 05:58 PM

View Post1Mac, on 27 April 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Great, thank you for your answers! I'm long suspected that Wineskin wasn't really making the most out of 64-bit engines, so I'm very excited to try your updated wrapper out.
Thank you, it's just to hold people over until a real update is released.

Quote

Maybe I misunderstood, but on the thread you say that Staging64-bit engines won't build properly "in the default wrapper." Are you saying that they will build properly in your wrapper?
That is correct with the stock wrapper, you can not make Staging64-bit engines work or even build correctly.
Mine now will work with and build Staging64-bit engines correctly.
(the wineskin-2.6.2 you download via WineSkin Winery directly aka stock wrapper)


Quote

I guess my fear is that some future update will remove OGL support from MacOS entirely. That's certainly been Apple's MO in the past, to go from "we're no longer supporting x" to "x will no longer work after the latest update," where x = OS Classic, 32-bit applications, etc. Maybe that doesn't make sense in the case of OGL.
It's Apple it is possbile but that's where MoltenVK will come into play, or Crossover will build another way to still use wine on macOS since they bundle modified wine with their product.


View Post1Mac, on 27 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Cool, thank you. That article was part of what I was thinking of when I asked my question. I guess you all are saying that Apple hasn't been updating its OGL implementation but also hasn't removed it. Is that right? Would I still be able to run OGL games if I upgrade to High Sierra? Is there any chance Apple would ever remove OGL implementation entirely from future OS's? Would Vulkan hypothetically be able to fill that void?
OGL is currently still included with High Sierra, I still use multiple wrappers I have made without issue once I fixed the GPU detection issue.


What I do when ever a new macOS version is released I download the installer but install it onto an External Drive to test it out to ensure I can use what I need before upgrading me internal drive, that way no surprises when something stops working.

#8 Brainzyy

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:32 PM

The only reason to use my compiled engines is that they are 10.6+ compatible instead of 10.8+.

#9 Gcenx

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:17 PM

View PostScoPezz, on 28 April 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

The only reason to use my compiled engines is that they are 10.6+ compatible instead of 10.8+.

I always forget compiling them allows you to use them on 10.6

#10 dankoB

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:28 PM

Although, if I'm not mistaking you cannot compile x64 Staging right now unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong...if something changed.

#11 Brainzyy

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 05:18 PM

I cannot compile 64bit in general for 10.6. But that shouldn't be necessary anyway, because 64bit only apps are too heavy for machines that are restricted to 10.6 or 10.7 (like my early 2008 macbook).

I haven't tried compiling 64bit for 10.8 in a while, the biggest issue is the wineskinbuild stuff is very outdated and only contains 32bit stuff.




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