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Catalina and 32bit


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#1 ovvldc

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:04 PM

According to MacRumors: "macOS Catalina does away with 32-bit app support, so some of your older apps are going to stop working. The operating system will let you know which apps are now defunct once you upgrade."

https://www.macrumor...macos-catalina/

I hope Codeweavers can get their thunking system working soon, or I know a lot of people here who are probably not keen on upgrading.

#2 Zakk

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 09:58 PM

Even ignoring wine, your native steam library is going to take a pretty big hit.

#3 ovvldc

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:35 AM

Yes, that too :(.

Is this where we all abandon running a single OS and keep virtual machines in Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion around all the time? (VirtualBox and QEMU do not have decent graphics performance, AFAICT)

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, this makes the 32bit Wine on 64bit Mac OS even more important. Even if the 32bit Mac versions of various Steam games no longer work, nearly all of them have 32bit Windows versions that we may still be able to use...

I wonder how much Valve is interested in this part of Wine. And also how much competition they are expecting from the iOS games that may be ported over to MacOS with Project Marzipan Catalyst.

#4 ovvldc

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 03:48 PM

It seems like first Arch Linux and now Ubuntu have decided to drop 32bit. I hope that CodeWeavers and the wider Wine community now have more urgency to make something work for this. At least it is not just a MacOS issue anymore.

#5 Gcenx

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:59 PM

The Linux situation is vastly different then on macOS 32Bit libs being removed is different then outright blocking 32Bit code execution like macOS.

CodeWeavers are working on different avenues but it’s not like we will get any confirmation until they are ready (None Discloser Agrements) , this won’t reflect Winehq.

I personally have been contributing directly to https://github.com/P...nicis-winebuild , qparis added a Hangover environment and builder but hangover is basically useless.

It also already integrated the custom version of clang from ccdavis for all macOS builders but -mwine32 that it provides is not usable at precent for wine, lightly needing patches that we frankly might never see until CodeWeavers are ready to release them.

#6 ovvldc

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 05:20 PM

Obviously, emulating with QEMU will be very slow. Well, nothing more we can do then, other than wait and cross our fingers.

#7 Zakk

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 03:11 AM

View Postovvldc, on 21 June 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

It seems like first Arch Linux and now Ubuntu have decided to drop 32bit. I hope that CodeWeavers and the wider Wine community now have more urgency to make something work for this. At least it is not just a MacOS issue anymore.

The Arch and Ubuntu situations are different. Arch still provides multilib, they just don't provide 32-bit installers. Ubuntu doesn't provide 32-bit installers and as of 19.10 they won't provide multilib either. It's the multilib thing that's a deal killer for wine and many games.

Honestly lxd containers work just fine for this, so if you want to stay on ubuntu past 19.10 there are ways to deal with it, just not newbie friendly ones. I'm skeptical there's going to be any sort of satisfactory solution on macOS, though.

#8 Gcenx

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 04:37 PM

@Zakk if Ubuntu don't change their mind later and the person is a newbie they might as well move to Pop!_OS they said they won't drop 32bit support, so at least a good supported Debian based distro will still have 32Bit support.

And I agree I don't see a decent macOS solution appearing for a good while at this rate, it's sad considering CodeWeavers were making the most money from macOS ports. I only see it happening faster if Value wants to add official Proton support on macOS


@ovvldc QEMU might be slow and I wouldn't even mind if it covers running DirectX9 and below games at playable rates, Hangover on the other hand I can't even launch the few games/programs I had tested. On Reddit someone responded to me saying they did run a few programs on an arm64 version of Ubuntu but on straight Linux it wouldn't even run those same programs.

#9 TheTuKays

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:11 AM

are there any technical documents on how Catalina is blocking 32bit?

#10 Zakk

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:08 PM

All system provided frameworks no longer contain i386 versions.
Any executable that you attempt to run that only contains an i386 architecture fails with EBADARCH

So you can't even provide all 32bit dependencies yourself, the system won't even execute 32 bit binaries anymore.

In Mojave there was an nvram flag you could set to disable/enable 32bit, I don't know if that's carried over to Catalina.

#11 ovvldc

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 03:54 PM

Yeah, apparently, the idea was to just all the processor (which can run 32 bit just fine) to run 32 bit code and catch transfers across the boundaries between 32bit and 64bit code. The question then is where to have those boundaries so that the catching and casting happens in the fewest places and costs the least overhead..




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