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MacOS and Metal


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#1 TECH198

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 09:44 AM

I was just wondering. in reference to : https://portingteam....rt-on-macos-r63

How does VMWare products do it?

As they would have the same trouble right ?  They too would had to do conversion between DIrectX and OpenGL, (or metal on current Macs after 2012) so they obviously solved this problem.

so, is just lack of developers? or something else preventing ? eg.. weather is OS install or just processes used the transition would be the same. Its just VMware would have the OS installed, but it would still transition the same way with DirectX>>OpenGL..Metal etc..

#2 Incredible Hulk

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 11:12 AM

View PostTECH198, on 03 September 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

I was just wondering. in reference to : https://portingteam....rt-on-macos-r63

How does VMWare products do it?

As they would have the same trouble right ?  They too would had to do conversion between DIrectX and OpenGL, (or metal on current Macs after 2012) so they obviously solved this problem.

so, is just lack of developers? or something else preventing ? eg.. weather is OS install or just processes used the transition would be the same. Its just VMware would have the OS installed, but it would still transition the same way with DirectX>>OpenGL..Metal etc..
I'm sure VMWare and Paralles use some parts of Wine code.
On the other side, Wine is multiplatform project and they just can't, or don't want, to support different code bases for OpenGL, Vulkan on Linux and Metal on Mac only.

Also, right now Valve for it's own commercial reasons (multiplatform development) is pushing big behind Wine, DXVK and Vulkan and in that way resources are put into MoltenVK as a solution for running cross-platform Vulkan on Mac.

Of course if You look at the pipeline
DirectX - DXVK - MoltenVK - Metal

it looks terrible, but more tech savvy guys say that with modern low overhead GPU APIs (DX12, Vulkan, Metal) it doesn't have to be.

On the other hand. If someone started doing proper DX - Metal (DXMT) translation layer 5 years ago when Apple announced Metal, we will be in a much better shape now.

But it's still not late :)

#3 Zakk

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 05:52 PM

View PostIncredible Hulk, on 03 September 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sure VMWare and Paralles use some parts of Wine code.

I'm sure they don't. It would be in violation of the wine license to use any part of that code without publishing the source code of the applications that use it.
I highly doubt those two companies are taking that risk.

They both had dx9 -> OpenGL translation layers, and they both (since I assume VMware will not fall behind here) have dx11->metal translators.

What this likely means is there are multiple dx11->metal implementations out there, all of which are proprietary and closed source.

#4 Incredible Hulk

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 06:46 PM

From year 2007.

"Correct. In current implementation Parallels uses modified Wine code under LGPL license. LGPL license is not violated because Wine is absolutely separate binary (number of DLLs) installed in guest Windows and doesn't linked to any of Parallels code. It used for DirectX to OpenGL translation.

Modified Wine code is freely available by request from Parallels as any other 3-rd party code described here - http://www.parallels.com/en/licensing/ . It will be added to this section in 1-2 days once we prepare its source code package for delivery."

Source:
https://forum.parall...g-issues.12648/

That's history. Right now they have Dx to Metal and Wine don't.

#5 Zakk

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 08:03 PM

https://www.parallel...egal/licensing/

There's nothing wine related  listed there anymore, so they must have moved away from it.

I wonder if they're doing dx9->OpenGL or dx9->Metal? Given the deprecated status of OGL on MacOS it would seem wise to have moved to Metal.

There's an incredible amount of effort wrapped up in all this.




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