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Cider XBox 360 controller emulation with PS3 controller?


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#1 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:03 AM

Hi,

I'm successfully playing Skyrim on my 2010 iMac and have been using GamePad Companion to translate the events from my PS3 controller into key presses, but I'm annoyed at not having dual analog stick support. Walking around is not smooth since there's nothing in between up/down/left/right and the 45° diagonals. Additionally, there's also no difference between pressing slightly forward to walk slower or going all the way to walk faster. It would also be nice to have rumble support.

Since the game supports the XBox 360 controller, I got that to work correctly on Bootcamp with Windows 7 using the MotionInJoy gamepad emulator. I was wondering if anyone had any luck on getting a PS3 controller to be emulated as an XBox 360 controller through the Cider configuration files or something else?

Thanks for the help,

Geert

#2 dankoB

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:15 AM

I've had the analog sticks on my Logitech rumblepad 2  to work via GamePad Companion. Seems odd that it won't work for PS3. As for your main question I can't really help you out.

#3 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:22 AM

What do you tie the dual analog sticks to then?

I have Z-rotation and axis tied to the mouse mouvement, but the X and Y axis don't have anything progressive that they can be tied to, right? So I have them tied to key presses. Is there anything else I can tied them to that would make a game see it as a progressive signal instead of on/off?

#4 Drakulix

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:45 AM

Taken from the Cider 7119 Topic:

Subject: Cider 7119

smoketetsu said:

There's been several with gamepad support although with certain games like X-Men Origins Wolverine and Saw I alway had to use the an xinput EMU driver to properly remap the controls even with an actual 360 controller (or make it work at all). Also with certain games like psychonauts I can't use the 360 controller I had to use my logitech rumblepad 2 instead. Although if the new revision of psychonauts really does have new support for the 360 controller one may be able to use this with it too.. I haven't tried it yet.

You put the xbox360cemu dll's into your game folder with the executables. Then here's what you need to put into the xbox360cemu.ini for an actual 360 controller in games like I mentioned above... the settings where setup for the logitech by default and I had to via trial and error configure them for the 360 pad (I have a wireless one here and rumble doesn't seem to work with it).. it's kind of ironic that I have to use a piece of software meant for non-xinput pads with one but we're not actually on windows after all.  8)

[PAD1]
Index=0				#controller index in game controllers list; 0 is first; -1 to ignore this pad
Left Analog X=1			#axis index; use - to invert; precede with 's' for a slider eg; s-1; 7 to disable
Left Analog Y=-2		#axis index; use - to invert; precede with 's' for a slider eg; s-1; 7 to disable
Right Analog X=4		#axis index; use - to invert; precede with 's' for a slider eg; s-1; 7 to disable
Right Analog Y=-5		#axis index; use - to invert; precede with 's' for a slider eg; s-1; 7 to disable
Left Analog X Linear=0		#-100 to +100  raise this number to increase sensitivity near center
Left Analog Y Linear=0		#-100 to +100  raise this number to increase sensitivity near center
Right Analog X Linear=0		#-100 to +100  raise this number to increase sensitivity near center
Right Analog Y Linear=0		#-100 to +100  raise this number to increase sensitivity near center
Left Analog X+ Button=0		#button id; 0 to disable
Left Analog X- Button=0		#button id; 0 to disable
Left Analog Y+ Button=0		#button id; 0 to disable
Left Analog Y- Button=0		#button id; 0 to disable
Right Analog X+ Button=0	#button id; 0 to disable
Right Analog X- Button=0	#button id; 0 to disable
Right Analog Y+ Button=0	#button id; 0 to disable
Right Analog Y- Button=0	#button id; 0 to disable
D-pad POV=1			#POV index; 0 to disable
D-pad Up=12			#button id; 0 to disable
D-pad Down=13			#button id; 0 to disable
D-pad Left=14			#button id; 0 to disable
D-pad Right=15			#button id; 0 to disable
A=1				#button id; 0 to disable
B=2				#button id; 0 to disable
X=3				#button id; 0 to disable
Y=4				#button id; 0 to disable
Left Shoulder=5			#button id; 0 to disable
Right Shoulder=6		#button id; 0 to disable
Back=10				#button id; 0 to disable
Start=9			#button id; 0 to disable
Left Thumb=7			#button id; 0 to disable
Right Thumb=8			#button id; 0 to disable
Left Trigger=a3			#button id; precede with 'a' for an axis; eg; a-6; for a slider precede with 's' eg; s-1
Right Trigger=a6			#button id; precede with 'a' for an axis; eg; a-6; for a slider precede with 's' eg; s-1
UseForceFeedback=1		#use 0 to 1; default 0
ForceLargeGain=10000		#use 0 to 10000; default 10000; effect intensity
ForceLargePeriod=120000		#use 0 to 200000; default 120000; effect frequency; wheel only
ForceLargeFadeTime=10		#use 0 to 100; default 10
ForceLargeFadeIn=1		#use 0 to 1; default 1
ForceLargeFadeOut=1		#use 0 to 1; default 1
ForceLargeStartMag=2000		#use 0 to 10000; default 2000; effect will begin with this value
ForceSmallGain=10000		#use 0 to 10000; default 10000; effect intensity
ForceSmallPeriod=30000		#use 0 to 200000; default 30000; effect frequency; wheel only
ForceSmallFadeTime=10		#use 0 to 100 default 10
ForceSmallFadeIn=1		#use 0 to 1; default 1
ForceSmallFadeOut=1		#use 0 to 1; default 1
ForceSmallStartMag=2000		#use 0 to 10000; default 2000; effect will begin with this value
WheelInertiaGain=2500		#use 0 to 10000; default 2500; effect intensity; wheel only
WheelSpringGain=5000		#use 0 to 10000; default 5000; effect intensity; wheel only
SteeringWheel=0			#use 0 to 1; enable for all wheel effects


So you could get your PS3 Controller probably be recognized by the game as a XBox 360 Controller.
Cider should detect your PS3 Controller already even with out GamePad Companion, so you just need to adjust the config file of xbox360cemu.

If it does not work, you can use ControllerMate instead of gamePad Companion. It supports mapping the analog stick to the mouse. Although
it is sometimes a bit difficult to use, it does really make everything possible with your gamepad and is worth the time you put into it.
Also we have a quite good tutorial somewhere on the forums about ControllerMate, I think. I was from devilhunter, if I remember it correctly.
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#5 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:57 AM

Thanks, that's very helpful. How can I make sure that Cider is already discovering the PS3 controller? Is there some debug setting I can use to have it output the controllers it knows about? I tried using the WINEDEBUG env variable for it, but it doesn't seem to be using that.

#6 Drakulix

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:13 PM

I do not know a way how to do it. ^^
It depends on the engine, if the Cider Port is able to handle controllers.
You should ask cluthz.
I think he has tested several engines on their gamepad support and can also probably tell you,
what files you need to swap in the skyrim wrapper to enable controller support, if it is not active in this engine.
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#7 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:19 PM

Just to clarify, I have the right analog stick tied to mouse movement with GamePad Controller, so that's cool. My main gripe is about the left analog stick having to be tied to key presses as games don't have any other progressive data control than the mouse when the game is working in keyboard/mouse mode.

That aside, I tried the xbox360cemu approach and I can get Skyrim to detect that there's XInput device present as it's not using the mouse anymore. However, I can't figure out what configuration to use to make it actually tie the mapping to the PS3 controller.

#8 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:20 PM

Drakulix said:

You should ask cluthz.
I think he has tested several engines on their gamepad support and can also probably tell you,
what files you need to swap in the skyrim wrapper to enable controller support, if it is not active in this engine.

Thanks, I'll reach out to cluthz then.

#9 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:26 PM

Ok this is what you have to do.

First the inputfiles from framework to framework is quite different, and some might work with one engine and some with another.

I've had best luck with the files from 6357.

I've copied the dinput, dinput8 and all xinput libs from 6357 to oher wrappers to the wrapper I'm using.

I've got a ps3 clone gamepad, I can try get it working in skyrim

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#10 playn

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:32 PM

Moved to the Ask For Help section

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#11 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:34 PM

Thanks a lot for helping out cluthz, I didn't even got to contacting you yet!

I'm not sure which framework nor build number I'm using, I got the cider wrapper from this post:
http://forum.porting...php?f=45&t=9348

Can you point me to where I can get 6357?

Just some pointers towards how I can check what Cider is detecting should be enough to get me on my way to try to get it to work with my PS3 controller.

Many thanks for your help!

Update: I'll read around the newbie section for a while to get the tools and such, sorry for asking a probably very newbie-like question

#12 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:34 PM

playn said:

Moved to the Ask For Help section

Sorry for posting in the wrong section and thanks for moving it :-)

#13 Drakulix

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:47 PM

gbevin said:

Just to clarify, I have the right analog stick tied to mouse movement with GamePad Controller, so that's cool. My main gripe is about the left analog stick having to be tied to key presses as games don't have any other progressive data control than the mouse when the game is working in keyboard/mouse mode

You can also map the stick to buttons with ControllerMate.
You can actually map anything to everything with it.  :)
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#14 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:51 PM

Drakulix said:

You can also map the stick to buttons with ControllerMate.
You can actually map anything to everything with it.  :)

I looked into ControllerMate, I'm wondering how it would fundamentally help me. It would still have to map one analog stick to key presses, no?

#15 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:58 PM

You need to go to the cider wrapper archive on this forum. get the 6357.

So far i can tell that the input and dinpu8 dylibs doesn't work..

The good news, is that i can actually get everything working very well with stock wrapper and gamepad companion!

It will take a bit to map buttons, but i do guess thats your best bet.

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#16 Drakulix

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:09 PM

gbevin said:

Drakulix said:

You can also map the stick to buttons with ControllerMate.
You can actually map anything to everything with it.  :)

I looked into ControllerMate, I'm wondering how it would fundamentally help me. It would still have to map one analog stick to key presses, no?

No you can map different axis values to different keys with logic controllers in ControllerMate.
If your x-axis for example has a range from 12000 to -12000 you can map 1000 to 12000 to A and -1000 to -12000 to S.
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#17 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:13 PM

Drakulix said:

No you can map different axis values to different keys with logic controllers in ControllerMate.
If your x-axis for example has a range from 12000 to -12000 you can map 1000 to 12000 to A and -1000 to -12000 to S.

Right, that would solve the gradual walking speed, I was already thinking about that, it's why I started looking into ControllerMate. However it would not make the directions fully smooth. You still would have to use 4 keys as axis for the directions where press two at the some time gives you only a direction change for every 45 degrees, nothing in between.

#18 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:16 PM

I guess gamepad companion and controller mate is very much the same.
I tried controller mate in trial mode, and I found it a bit hard to configure, so i went with gamepad companion.

Gamepad companion is very easy to use, although I do believe that you can customize controller mate a bit more.

I bought gamepad companion on app store for just a few bucks, since i got a gift card there when i bought my MBA :)

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#19 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:22 PM

cluthz said:

I guess gamepad companion and controller mate is very much the same.
I tried controller mate in trial mode, and I found it a bit hard to configure, so i went with gamepad companion

Yes, they both serve the same purpose. The advantage of Controller Mate is that the mappings can be more intelligent, but it takes a lot longer to setup and program.

In my case though, it still doesn't offer a solution to get two analog sticks into the game. One can use the mouse, but the other one always seems it has to be mapped to key presses, meaning that it's never smooth :-/


I got the libs out of 6519 and put them in the Skyrim wrapper, but I'm stuck with what to do next. I have no idea how to tell xbox360cemu what it should use for its mappings. Any ideas about how I can see what Cider actually detects as connected input devices / gamepads?

#20 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:30 PM

Actually, when I replace the libdinput.dylib and libdinput8.dylib files, the application simply doesn't start. I assume that they're not compatible with the other libraries in the wrapper.

#21 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:53 PM

gbevin said:

Actually, when I replace the libdinput.dylib and libdinput8.dylib files, the application simply doesn't start. I assume that they're not compatible with the other libraries in the wrapper.

yes that was what i found out.
I'm pretty sure with some tweaking that the controller will be perfect with gamepad companion..

Gimme a sec and i'll upload a short clip.
(

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#22 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 02:44 PM

Oki here is a short clip from me playing with the controller.
http://www.youtube.c...?v=e9VYVg4Dd78
I have a cold atm, and the camera is pretty close to my face so ignore then breathing :D

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#23 gbevin

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:25 PM

Thanks a lot for the video, it's exactly as I describe though. So you have smooth analog stick control over the camera since that's mapped to the mouse. However the left analog stick only moves the character in eight distinct directions without anything in between, which corresponds to the keys that are actually pressed when the left analog stick moves. It's usable, but it's not as precise as when using the left stick as a real analog stick where you can really walk into any direction as opposed to 0°, 45°, 90°, 135°, 180°, 225°, 270° or 315°.

#24 cluthz

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:53 PM

oh, well i steer camera and thus also movement with right stick, because I wanna see where i go.
The usual tricks for getting the stick to work didn't seem to have any effect or simply was not compatible, so i guess this it the only option I can give you atm.

I have build a sky rim wrapper based on 6635, which would fix this (probably), but the problem with that one is that it has some texture issues with water, it sometimes get just black

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#25 Kama.Stein

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:40 AM

gbevin said:

Walking around is not smooth since there's nothing in between up/down/left/right and the 45° diagonals. Additionally, there's also no difference between pressing slightly forward to walk slower or going all the way to walk faster.

Since all the keys on the keyboard are digital (either on or off) and furthermore there are not enough keys to even map the degrees "in between" especially not without encroaching on other functions. So the most you can get is 8 directions and on\off for pressing it much less 360° of direction and incremental speed depending on how far you move the stick.

I don't see how you could map that with any kind of keyboard to gamepad emulator. Controllermate or similar applications don't have magic to turn digital keys into analog ones. Some people simply use keyboard emulation with everything and don't know what they are missing. No offense to drakulix but the way he described it does not solve the problem that keyboard keys are digital since one is simply mapping a certain range to on and another range to off. There's no in between range on the keyboard. Nor is there any hidden range function in the keyboard control functions. So anything suggested that involves a keyboard emulator is no better than what the person was using in the first place in regards to what they want.. true analog movement... nor can it provide rumble.

This person wasn't saying his PS3 pad wasn't working at all just a specific function.. true analog movement.

Also a lot of people are OK with one or two speeds of movement (depending on game... some support walking by holding down shift or sprinting) and eight directions especially everyone who plays with a keyboard. If you could map it so below a certain threshold it presses W A S D and over a certain thresh-hold it it activates shift+W A S D you could have two speeds of movement and eight directions. As I noted in the post I was quoted from I had to figure out via trial and error how to get my wireless 360 pad to work properly with the xbox360 controller emu I used gamepad testing apps and textedit but sometimes the numbering for the buttons is slightly different depending on where you are looking at it from so partly it's guesswork.

I assume the PS3 pad is recognized as a standard HID controller when hooked up so if I where you I'd test it with something like joystick and gamepad tester and see. Also I've heard it should work without third party drivers installed so you might want to make sure you are not running them. It seems to me as such that those drivers may work with some games but not others. But I don't have a PS3 pad so I can't say for sure.

BTW, I've only used the xbox controller EMU with Unreal Engine 3 games and either the logitech cordless rumblepad 2  or a wireless xbox360 pad (which wouldn't be recognized without it ironically). The config quoted above is specifically for the wireless xbox 360 controller. So I couldn't help you with your PS3 pad since it may require its own specific settings in order to work properly with it since I don't have one. Nor do I have Skyrim.

If you can't get the xbox 360 controller EMU to work with it assuming it also doesn't work natively which I'm guessing it doesn't since you used a keyboard emulator app in the first place that's your only other choice if you insist on playing it with a gamepad. You just have to deal with only having digital 8 way movement mapped to a stick.

cluthz said:

oh, well i steer camera and thus also movement with right stick, because I wanna see where i go.
Even when you have analog movement you still need to "steer" with the right stick and "move" with the left stick independently the same way as if you didn't have it. So it's not like not having it is a benefit when it comes to steering or that you can move and steer using the right stick alone like you seem to imply you are doing. Unless you combined the functions for both sticks onto one. The right control always merely turns and looks up and down. Having true analog movement simply means more precise movement as well as precise camera movement*. With keyboard emulation you only get one not the other.

gbevin said:

It would also be nice to have rumble support.

One last thing I actually got rumble for the first time ever with my Xbox360 controller.. it was with Feral's Batman Arkham Asylum native port. Hardly any games support rumble or force feedback and it highly depends also on what kind of controller you have and also if you are using Lion they did not ship it with force feedback libraries for logitech that and one must grab them from a snow leopard disc.

For the 360 pad tattieboggles drivers installs them but like I said the only game I've noticed it working with so far is Feral's Batman Arkham Asylum port. The xbox 360 controller emu claims to support it in the config files but that one thing doesn't work while the game is wrapped in cider.

Also just a small note here... I personally never got dll's like the xbox 360 controller emu working with wineskin.. only cider.

*Still not as precise as a pointing device such as a mouse. ;)
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#26 gbevin

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:35 AM

smoketetsu said:

I assume the PS3 pad is recognized as a standard HID controller when hooked up so if I where you I'd test it with something like joystick and gamepad tester and see. Also I've heard it should work without third party drivers installed so you might want to make sure you are not running them. It seems to me as such that those drivers may work with some games but not others. But I don't have a PS3 pad so I can't say for sure.

BTW, I've only used the xbox controller EMU with Unreal Engine 3 games and either the logitech cordless rumblepad 2  or a wireless xbox360 pad (which wouldn't be recognized without it ironically). The config quoted above is specifically for the wireless xbox 360 controller. So I couldn't help you with your PS3 pad since it may require its own specific settings in order to work properly with it since I don't have one. Nor do I have Skyrim.

Many thanks for your detailed post and taking the time to write it!

The PS3 controller is indeed detected as a regular HID device on MacOSX and I did get the xbox controller EMU working with Skyrim since when I add the dll, the game notices it's there and assumes that I'm not using the mouse, changing it's behavior and interface.

What I have trouble with is the actual configuration of the xbox controller EMU. I don't know if Cider detects the PS3 HID device, nor how to set it up from the xbox controller EMU configuration file. Do you have any pointers for that?

Thanks a lot for your help!

#27 Drakulix

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:52 PM

Here has someone, got a PS3 Controller to work with that config:
http://forums.steamp... ... ostcount=7

I think getting it to work correctly is just try and error without the x360ce.exe application, that we cannot run in Cider..
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#28 cluthz

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

Drakulix said:

Here has someone, got a PS3 Controller to work with that config:
http://forums.steamp... ... ostcount=7

I think getting it to work correctly is just try and error without the x360ce.exe application, that we cannot run in Cider..

I didn't get the controller work (with 360cemu) in 7081 at all. no buttons are working for me

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#29 Drakulix

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

Even not with a custom engine, cluthz?

#30 cluthz

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

Drakulix said:

Even not with a custom engine, cluthz?

ye.
dinput/dinput8 dylibs (from 6357) does not work, xinput does, but still no luck.
I could try out more, but that will be later.

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