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GTX 780 and Mac Pro compatibility


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#1 MessiahDMR

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:39 AM

Hello,
Since the recent loss of my faithful GTX285, I was thinking about replacing it for a GTX780, which offers a better price/performance ratio than the GTX680 Mac Edition and apparently runs on Mac Pros.
According to the informations I managed to gather, it seems that all you need to run a GTX780 on a mac pro is basically two 6-to-8 pins PCIe adapters. I was wondering if anyone already tried installing one in their own rig and if there were versions of the GPU that did or did not run. The power draw should not be an issue since it seems to be about the same as the GTX285.

For reference, the GPU I was considering:
http://eu.evga.com/p...s Family&uc=EUR

And my system report:
Mac Pro
Early 2009
Processor  2 x 2,26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Memory  16 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics  NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB (Yes, that's my factory GPU I currently use as a backup)
Software  OS X 10.9 (13A603)

Thanks to anyone who would have more informations on the subject.

#2 hmtinc

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:37 PM

In windows through bootcamp the GTX 780 will work right out of the box , except the apple boot screen will not load up . If you want to use osx you will have to have a extra compatible graphics card plugged in or you will have to flash your gtx 780 (which does require some soldering , its not really a diy thing) . You can buy pre flashed cards of ebay , but they usually are more expensive than the actual card . In your case if you don't plan on upgrading your mac pro anytime soon , you would be better of just buying a gtx 680 mac edition or a flashed gtx 680 .

But if you are still interested in a gtx 780 for your mac , i did a quick search and came with this : http://www.ebay.com/...=item4d13e7f6bd
As you can see pre flashed cards are quite expensive .
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#3 MessiahDMR

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:50 PM

I mostly plan to use it for gaming on BootCamp and already have my factory GPU installed in case I have troubles booting OS X, but I heard that the latest NVIDIA drivers supported it and the OS X drivers did so too since 10.8, so I guess it answers my question in that it should more or less work out of the box for what I plan to do with it.

Besides that, I will point out that the pre-flashed version is actually 580€ (+35€ shipping) which makes it a better deal than the both 680 Mac Edition (599€ retail), or buying the PC version on Amazon or EVGA (600€ and 650€ respectively) so it is actually the one with the better price for someone living in Europe like myself.
I was actually interested in the Classified model because of the overclocking and improved cooling, with the price only being slightly higher than the default model, but I now wonder if these features are only marginal performance increases and I should instead go with the pre-flashed default version of the GPU that would not require any workaround.
I do plan to run my games on Ultra specs for as long as possible, just as I did with my previous GPU, which lasted for about three years and a half until I killed it from overheating while playing (which is why I am worried about cooling).
Let's just say I plan to run things like The Witcher 3 with it and hopefully keep it for a few years and have still have smooth performances on modern games.

Thanks a lot for your input. If you (or anyone else) has any idea if there is a significant performance increase with the overclocked models, feedback would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise the pre-flashed version seems like the go-to I guess (unless VAT stikes, which would bring it way over 700€).

PS: I don't plan to change my rig until I can afford to build my own hackintosh from scratch, since the new Mac Pro does not inspire me at all, and if I did, I would probably grab some things back from my current one like the GPU, hard drives if compatibles and whatever else I can salvage. I'm fine with the processing power right now, it never gets used up that much, so I'm just in need of a GPU to continue running new games.

#4 MessiahDMR

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

Hi there! I'm doing a small update for those interested in getting the same GPU in their rig.
So, after the insane price drop the 780 series just had due to the release of the 780Ti, I ended up buying a GTX780 FTW instead of a Classified (which went out of stock), but I'm guessing this goes for any of these models due to the similar specs.

I bought a PCIe 6 to 8 pin adapter, plugged my card in and booted on OS X 10.9, boot screen provided courtesy of my GT120 and secondary display, and so far it seems to run natively without any issue.
On the other hand, I had a bit more trouble getting the drivers working properly on Windows, the disc didn't seem to help much, so I ended up downloading the latest (non-beta) drivers manually on NVIDIA's website and install it myself. After a reboot, everything was up and running.

CAUTION THOUGH:
When I began testing it in-game and decided I would do so by cranking Tomb Raider on maximum settings (with TressFX), I played for five minutes before my computer shut itself down. The issue? Power draw.
According to the research I did prior to buying the card, the maximum power you can provide to a PCIe slot on a Mac Pro appears to be 225w, that's 75w for the slot itself and 75w per power connector, but the problem is that this card's maximum power draw is 250w.

As a temporary solution, I decided to regulate the maximum power draw of my GPU through EVGA's Precision X software by setting it to 80%, which according to my math would be 200w. I then launched Tomb Raider again and have been able to play without any further issue. I will do more testing on GPU-intensive games in the coming days, having now set the power slider to 90%, which would give a maximum of 225w, and thus still fall within the limits of what the Mac Pro can provide.

In the long run though, I think I will be buying a secondary power supply and plug my GPU on it in order to take full advantage of its capabilities.

Hope this helps anyone!

EDIT: I tried Metro: Last Light at 80% [on BootCamp, with the highest video settings, the Mac OS port is terrible] and my computer shut itself off again after playing for ten minutes. I would definitely recommend an additional PSU for the most graphically intense games as it seems to go over the set limits anyway.

#5 Matterall373

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:58 PM

Very good posts - I am in the exact situation except I have an upgraded PM2008, 2.8mgz.  I think our power supply is the same though so I would have the same problems without external power source.

Can you please update us on how gaming is going? I game too but only EVE Online (but I do play Witcher and Oblivion/Skyrim) I am not sure what EVE requires from a computer (maybe CPU), but the Witcher and Skyrim require strong GPU cards.

Before I upgrade the card (from a 285) I need to decide if I should get rid of this setup and change to a new iMac, since the processor is so much faster. Anyone have advice?

Thanks again for a cleanly written post.

#6 MessiahDMR

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:09 PM

The problem isn't coming from the power supply but the restriction apple put on the PCIe ports. I have tried running with an external PSU but it burnt after a week so I am sending it back.
I still have good performance with the internal power but if the card isn't locked it will shut down the computer on the most intensive games. From my experience, pretty much anything will run smoothly expect Metro: Last Light.
If your rig has no issues in terms of CPU/RAM/etc, upgrading the GPU might be a better idea in terms of price/performance.

#7 cluthz

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:27 PM

GTX780 now has a new core, which doesn't work properly on Mavericks.
You might get a old one and be lucky or a new one which doesn't work properly.
I've been thinking of getting one myself, but put it off since there is a lottery if it works or not. 10.9.2 *might* fix this.
(There are however some unofficial hacks that can be done)

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#8 Tristan

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 06:21 PM

Might be worth to know that it works in a DIY eGPU setup via Thunderbolt on a rMBP (early 2013)
Needs external display here and a bit of kext tweaking but nothing very impressive. Didn't need flashing GPU and still get the Apple bootlogo (efi support on GTX780 prolly helps?)
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btw works flawlessly on high-end games although it will crash system every 3 or 4 hours of very huge usage (like full hd and every graphics maxed out on big games). Apart from that it's fine

#9 cluthz

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

View Postcluthz, on 13 February 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

GTX780 now has a new core, which doesn't work properly on Mavericks.
You might get a old one and be lucky or a new one which doesn't work properly.
I've been thinking of getting one myself, but put it off since there is a lottery if it works or not. 10.9.2 *might* fix this.
(There are however some unofficial hacks that can be done)

With the updated Nvidia 331 drivers (by nvidia, not apple) OpenCL and CUDA is fixed on OSX 10.9.2.
I actually went and bought a Gigabyte GTX 780 GHz Edition today and I'm reinstalling OSX as we speak, I'll report back with my findings.

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#10 DocDeth

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

Messiah,  have you tried drawing accessory power from the optical drive bay?  I have read a few posts from other sites where this has been successfully achieved.  It's safer and better cosmetically (I guess - as I haven't done this yet). Than an external power source.

I recently swapped out a radeon 5770 for a gtx 680 in a Mac Pro 3.1 but was a little disappointed in the improvement - especially in OS X, where the frame rate is about 30-50% less than in bootcamp.  Was therefore thinking of going for the 780.  

I gather you can flash these to get a boot screen (it's a software ROM flash - no soldering involved! But to get the boot screen, I understand that you need the ROM on the card to be EFI).  I gather that if you don't flash the card, it still runs natively in OS X but you don't get the boot screen, it just stays black until the desktop appears.  Can you confirm or refute this last fact? I notice that you use a second vid card to boot into OS X - but have you tried just using the 780 and waiting for the desktop to appear- out of the darkness as it were?

#11 MessiahDMR

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:41 PM

View PostDocDeth, on 15 March 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Messiah,  have you tried drawing accessory power from the optical drive bay?  I have read a few posts from other sites where this has been successfully achieved.  It's safer and better cosmetically (I guess - as I haven't done this yet). Than an external power source.

I've heard about it but haven't done any internal modifications yet, I also kinda need my optical drive (at least ONE of them) so I'm not so sure.

Haven't bothered flashing yet either, it works just fine without it so I didn't see it as a necessity for now. I have removed my GT120 and I just boot to the black screen on OS X. Windows still has its usual bootscreen and the bootcamp performances are really worth it for me. (I don't game as much in OS X anymore due to poor porting and/or graphical limitations with OpenGL when it comes to AAAs)

#12 DocDeth

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:54 PM

View PostMessiahDMR, on 15 March 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

the bootcamp performances are really worth it for me. (I don't game as much in OS X anymore due to poor porting and/or graphical limitations with OpenGL when it comes to AAAs)

I am coming to the same conclusion regarding OS X and gaming.  

Have you done any benchmarking with Ingine's Valley or Heaven at all?  I'm still wondering whether it's worth upgrading to the 780 over the 680.  I may be able to find this out on barefeats so don't worry if not.

I have been toying around with the idea of a Hackintosh,  think this may be my next project.

#13 MessiahDMR

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:17 PM

No, I haven't done any benchmarking so I couldn't really tell you, if you're planning on some GPU intensive games it might be worth the upgrade, otherwise the 680 is probably a solid choice.
Some games managed to give me a tough time with maxed out graphics though, even on a 780, like Metro: Last Light in the outside sequences, or Tomb Raider with TressFX dropping to 40-45fps.

#14 cluthz

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:53 AM

View PostDocDeth, on 15 March 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

I am coming to the same conclusion regarding OS X and gaming.  

Have you done any benchmarking with Ingine's Valley or Heaven at all?  I'm still wondering whether it's worth upgrading to the 780 over the 680.  I may be able to find this out on barefeats so don't worry if not.

I have been toying around with the idea of a Hackintosh,  think this may be my next project.

You can check here:
http://portingteam.c...thread-updated/
The 670 in that bench is a over clocked one and should be pretty close to a GTX 680 at stock.

Also from bare feats:
http://barefeats.com/tube09.html

Some weird numbers from Dirt 2 tho, might be some lack of proper optimization

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#15 DocDeth

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:32 AM

View Postcluthz, on 16 March 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:



You can check here:
http://portingteam.c...thread-updated/
The 670 in that bench is a over clocked one and should be pretty close to a GTX 680 at stock.

I get nothing like that on MP 3.1 running OS X 9.2.   The 680 seems particularly throttled in a 3.1 using OS X for some reason, with frame rates in heaven on basic at 51fps.  I have been following another forum's thread on this issue that quotes similar problems with radeon 7 series cards in a MP 3.1, and reports of  MP1.1's outperforming them with same GPU's.

In bootcamp I tend to get about a 40+% better result (can't quote heaven figures as have pulled my bootcamp drive out to install a RAID at the moment) but on valley in OS X I get 34fps on ultra, whereas in windows with the same settings I get 48fps.  Big difference on a MP 3.1, hence my previous comment regarding gaming on windows vs OS X.

Edit:

Just ran benchmarking again on basic,  115fps in bootcamp and 58 in OS X.

As well as the improved fps in windows bootcamp, I also get the ability to use Nvidia's PhysX, (not available in OS X) which is the single best improvement in the gaming experience for me.  

As loathe as I am to use windows, it beats OS X hands down for gaming (nothing else mind you - I forgot you can't just delete apps from windows but have to "uninstall" them;  mistakenly did this and took me 1 hour to reinstall and then "uninstall" a game correctly.  1 hour!!!  It would have taken about 5 seconds in OS X).  It's memories of  these things and hours wasted trying to get the damn thing to play nicely that stop me from ever using a windows OS again for anything other than gaming.

#16 beep

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

Hi,
I've recently swapped my old ATI 6850 to Nvidia GTX 780 and I'm having framerates issues with wine. I have made a Live For Speed port which was running great on ATI (over 150-200fps). Now on GTX 780 it drops on certain places to 70 fps :/ averaging 100-150fps.
Is there any way to resolve this issue? The frame rates should be twice times better.

I've checked various benchmarks and it is performing 2x better than ATI eg. in Unigine Heaven 4 I have:
ATI 6850 - 1480 pts, 60 fps
GTX 780 - 3225 pts, 128 fps

I've tested the latest nvidia drivers and it is the same.

My specs: CPU - i7 2700k@4.4Ghz, MB - Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3, 32GB RAM, GPU - Nvidia GTX 780, Mavericks 10.9.3

#17 DocDeth

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

View Postbeep, on 16 March 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Hi,
I've recently swapped my old ATI 6850 to Nvidia GTX 780 and I'm having framerates issues with wine. I have made a Live For Speed port which was running great on ATI (over 150-200fps). Now on GTX 780 it drops on certain places to 70 fps :/ averaging 100-150fps.
Is there any way to resolve this issue? The frame rates should be twice times better.

I've checked various benchmarks and it is performing 2x better than ATI eg. in Unigine Heaven 4 I have:
ATI 6850 - 1480 pts, 60 fps
GTX 780 - 3225 pts, 128 fps

I've tested the latest nvidia drivers and it is the same.

My specs: CPU - i7 2700k@4.4Ghz, MB - Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3, 32GB RAM, GPU - Nvidia GTX 780, Mavericks 10.9.3

I can't help with Wine, I'm afraid as I don't use it.  Although to be fair, fps of 70+ is pretty good.  I was interested in how well Wine would run though but since I have a bootcamp set up, I tend to use this for gaming and OS X for everything else.

In bootcamp I get 115 fps in heaven basic with my gtx 680. It's about half that in OS X.  I was using an ATI 5770 before the 680 and was a bit disappointed with the increase in performance in OS X but when I used bootcamp - wow, not disappointed at all.

I would strongly suggest that if at all possible, you do your gaming in bootcamp as you will get maximum benefits from your 780.  Windows uses direct x 11 vs OS X's open GL to render graphics and it is way,way,way better.  I would prefer to run games from OS X but it's not such a big hassle option - booting between the 2 OS's. And it is definitely worth it for the improved graphics performance - in games at least.

#18 DocDeth

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

My guess would be that running a high spec GPU via a windows emulator on a 2nd OS is never going to give you as good a performance as running through windows natively; although I would be happy if someone with more specific knowledge about running Wine on OS X 9.2 could prove me wrong.  I would like to be able to run games well on my MP without having to resort to Windows but not convinced that is currently possible.  Maybe if Apple pull their finger out and develop better drivers and a mac equivalent of direct X11?

Edit:

I tried over the weekend to run crossover (effectively a commercial version of WINE - after failing to get very far with wine).  Unfortunately I did not find it very useful.  Most of my games just won't run, and the ones that do (mainly via steam) don't really perform any better than in native mac OS X   For example, PhysX not available (even though I did manage to install a PhysX driver in Crossover), couldn't measure framerates but it was laggy and jumpy.  Couldn't get nvidia drivers to install and thief wouldn't run as it needed a 64 bit environment; on googling this, it seems that Wine only runs in 32 bit at present, although there is mention of a 64 bit development in the pipeline, I gather that it is not yet available.  

At the moment WINE or Crossover is not for me and I really don't see much benefit in using it unless you aren't bothered about getting the best experience from your games and graphics card and just want minimal functionality for windows games without having to leave the OS X environment; but if that's the case, why upgrade to a better GPU?  

I am impressed with beep's fps though, what graphic specs you using?  Do you get PhysX functionality?

#19 beep

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:16 PM

View PostDocDeth, on 20 March 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

....

I am impressed with beep's fps though, what graphic specs you using?  Do you get PhysX functionality?

I have MSI GTX 780
http://www.msi.com/p...a/N7803GD5.html

and i7 2700k CPU @ 4.5 Ghz + 32GB RAM

PhysX is not yet aviable on OS X but they (NVIDIA) are working on it ;)

edit:
On windows in Unigine Heaven 4 I have 170 fps

#20 MessiahDMR

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:20 AM

I just got this in my mailbox:
http://www.evga.com/articles/00830/
Has anyone tried the new version on mac? I wonder if I shall try the upgrade or stick with my current one.

#21 bloumbloum

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:10 AM

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if some of you could watch their System's Information menu (through the Aplle menu), look at the line: PCI Cards and tell me what's the speed of your GTX...

Mine is stuck at 2.5 GT/s instead of the 5GT/s the PciE 2.0 should deliver... :(

Thx!



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And... yes, sorry I'm french, so I would apologize for my english... ;)

#22 cluthz

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:49 AM

2.5GT/S will not bottleneck a 580, neither a 680.
See here for info about link speed:
http://forum.netkas....hp?topic=8400.0

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#23 bloumbloum

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:04 AM

WOW, that was fast! :)

Thx for the answer!

#24 psikhotyk

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:04 PM

Hello guys,
I stumbled across this topic while trying to decide what i should upgrade my card to. I currently have a mac pro 3,1 with a ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB card that is dying on me. I read through the tread and couldn't tell if the 780 was worth it or not for my 3,1 or if i should go with the 680 mac edition or Sapphire HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 Mac Edition. I used to be a big gamer and ran windows off of bootcamp but started to get annoyed with windows and just gave up. I mostly use my mac for editing but do try to play games on it.

Basicly what are your guys thoughts on the card i should get?

#25 cluthz

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:36 PM

View Postpsikhotyk, on 11 August 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Hello guys,
I stumbled across this topic while trying to decide what i should upgrade my card to. I currently have a mac pro 3,1 with a ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB card that is dying on me. I read through the tread and couldn't tell if the 780 was worth it or not for my 3,1 or if i should go with the 680 mac edition or Sapphire HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 Mac Edition. I used to be a big gamer and ran windows off of bootcamp but started to get annoyed with windows and just gave up. I mostly use my mac for editing but do try to play games on it.

Basicly what are your guys thoughts on the card i should get?

Test between 680 and 7950 in a mac pro.
http://www.barefeats.com/gpu680v.html

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#26 bloumbloum

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:56 AM

View Postpsikhotyk, on 11 August 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Hello guys,
I stumbled across this topic while trying to decide what i should upgrade my card to. I currently have a mac pro 3,1 with a ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB card that is dying on me. I read through the tread and couldn't tell if the 780 was worth it or not for my 3,1 or if i should go with the 680 mac edition or Sapphire HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 Mac Edition. I used to be a big gamer and ran windows off of bootcamp but started to get annoyed with windows and just gave up. I mostly use my mac for editing but do try to play games on it.

Basicly what are your guys thoughts on the card i should get?


If you are planning to use Adobe Premiere, or After Effects for your editing jobs, the 680 is the choice, because of its CUDA capabilities...

https://forums.adobe...message/3377595




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